Stupid Differential Questions...

by **jpetree85** » Mon Jun 10, 2013 7:41 pm

I have a stupid question. I have been searching the forums and net and cannot find the answer. Do our vehicles come stock with spider gears? If so, both front and rear?

Second stupid question... spider gears transfer drive spin to the other wheel when no traction is detected on the original wheel, right? Where as lockers engage both wheels, right?

I'm asking because I am saving for a rear swap for a Detroit locker but looking for a cheap upgrade to the drive train until then. If I have spiders already then they suck and there is no need to get some; I'll just wait until I get my true lockers...

Thanks for bearing with my noobish stupidity!

by **fishsticks** » Mon Jun 10, 2013 7:49 pm

Spider gears are an integral part of all open differentials. So, yes you already have spider gears in both diffs.

MY Youtube Channel · by **TBYODA** » Mon Jun 10, 2013 8:13 pm

What year and model do you have? If you have a 8.0 rear end then there is really no easy way to get a aftermarket locker other than swap out rear end for a EXT or SS because they have a 8.5 more options. More experienced TB owners please chime in if got it wrong.
You can confirm if you a 8.0 by looking at your rear diff near the fill plug. If your 's is 06 or older going to have stay with a 06 or later rear ends because of anti locking breaks, etc.

by **v7guy** » Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:46 am

It's the different ABS system that is used on the 06 and up that keeps the older axles incompatible. you can use the 06 and newer on older vehicles, you just can't used the older ones on the 06 and newer.

by **jpetree85** » Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:52 am

OK. I got the 8" rear and currently saving for the 8.6". Just needed to know about the spiders. They really suck. I was hoping to get a little traction upgrade until then. Oh well.

Thank y'all for the input. Now I know!

by **Cable810** » Tue Jun 11, 2013 7:38 am

SS, have a 9.5 axle I thought...

by **jonbo2002** » Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:03 am

yes Caleb the SS is bigger, to the OP do you have a G80 code on your glove box sticker? If not you have an open diff, the G80 is a locker. but I believe if you want an aftermarket locker you need the open diff, am I correct guys?

by **bartonmd** » Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:26 am

jpetree85 wrote:OK. I got the 8" rear and currently saving for the 8.6". Just needed to know about the spiders. They really suck. I was hoping to get a little traction upgrade until then. Oh well.

Thank y'all for the input. Now I know!

Spider gears are what's in an open differential. They allow the torque to split evenly between both wheels. This means that if one wheel is on ice and is getting zero traction, then other wheel with traction will get zero torque.

A locker, on the other hand, keeps wheel speeds the same, regardless of torque split. With a locker, the speeds will stay the same, even if there is no traction on one side, and 100% of the torque is going through the other side.

Mike

by **v7guy** » Tue Jun 11, 2013 5:59 pm

yup, open diff is needed for the aftermarket locker on the 9.5. I don't recall the specifics though. HARDTRAILZ covered it a few years ago

MY Youtube Channel · by **TBYODA** » Thu Jun 13, 2013 3:11 pm

If you have a 8.0 rear diff could you not just swap in this from summit and be done? http://www.summitracing.com/parts/dtl-912a654/overview/ Edit: is this even the right part that will fit our 8.0? :scratch:

Would all you have to do is pull out out the inter guts and slide out axles as shown in the G80 rebuild and insert. I know I am over simplify it, never done any rear diff work before. Really looking for the experts to chime in. The only con that I have come across is that I have read is the 8.0 is not very strong. When looking on car-part.com I can find a bunch of EXT 06 or newer (in NY :mrgreen:

) but most are open diff. So on top of ~$500 - 1000 for something with lower mileage then you have to add aftermarket locker or launch box for about 350-450 or more. (yea I know look at theroadie's avatar :lol:

) So my question is (one of many, still :work:

) what really is involve if one were to go that route? Has any done this what was the out come good, bad.?

BTW my searching ability really sucks to date so forgive me if this has be talked about just post the link and have at my newbie questions. :finger:

by **DirtyBacon04** » Thu Jun 13, 2013 6:35 pm

you can put that in, but it's technically not a locker. It's just an LSD. However with this item, you could easily do the left foot braking technique to get a poor man's locker. It's an option to those on a budget. This video explains it really well.

Also just found this barney version of how a differential works. it's old, but nothing has ever explained it so well

MY Youtube Channel · by **TBYODA** » Thu Jun 13, 2013 8:51 pm

DirtyBacon04 wrote:you can put that in, but it's technically not a locker. It's just an LSD. However with this item, you could easily do the left foot braking technique to get a poor man's locker. It's an option to those on a budget. This video explains it really well.

Is there a aftermarket locker for the 8.0 rear end or would you just have to build a G80 from parts? If there is not one the LSD is better than open diff. In the video when both wheels were on mud 50% power went to both wheels. Would not a locker do that once it is locked or is more like 100%?

Also just found this barney version of how a differential works. it's old, but nothing has ever explained it so well

That was really good, I have seen other videos but that I understand how it works better.

by **v7guy** » Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:00 am

I think the biggest deterrent to using the 8.0 is that we've had guys brake them on relatively mild terrain. Although the upgrade is expensive I believe you're probably just throwing money away if you try to beef up the 8.0. It will very likely break and then you'll be spending that money all over again on beffier components.

I'm sure we've all gone the cheap route at some point, I know I have, and sometimes it works out. But not usually.

MY Youtube Channel · by **TBYODA** » Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:49 am

v7guy wrote:I think the biggest deterrent to using the 8.0 is that we've had guys brake them on relatively mild terrain. Although the upgrade is expensive I believe you're probably just throwing money away if you try to beef up the 8.0. It will very likely break and then you'll be spending that money all over again on beffier components.

Yea I have read that, kind a like the way the LSD works at first but then I came across a video on YouTube showing open, LSD, electronic traction control and lockers. The truck with a rear locker hand no issue going very slow over a small v shape incline were the left rear and right front picked upmas truck when up. The open, and electronic traction control trucks had to use more speed to get up it. Could break things. I really like E-lockers option but pricy.

There is a 06 ext open about 1.5 hour from me for $250 but has 95k on it. Not sure about the mileage, I currently have 64k. Thoughts
Another is 30 min but $550 with 70k. I wonder if they would do even trade.

by **DirtyBacon04** » Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:30 am

i'd buy it. i was planning on changing all the seals and bearings when i buy one anyways

by **v7guy** » Fri Jun 14, 2013 9:53 am

DirtyBacon04 wrote:i'd buy it. i was planning on changing all the seals and bearings when i buy one anyways

I agree, I don't think you can responsibly put it under your truck without a rebuild. These days I add the rebuild into the price. It's a peace of mind thing.

by **dvanbramer88** » Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:01 am

DirtyBacon04 wrote:It's an option to those on a budget.

If you round up to $500, and I can do a 8.5 axle swap and a lock-right locker for the same price. The junkyards in my area get $150 for a complete axle assembly, wheel mounting surface to wheel mounting surface. They might charge a little extra if you take the brakes/control arms. And even on here I've seen people get the 8.5 axle for ~$100 bucks.

Lets call the LSD a mall crawler mod for wet traction. :happy whip:

by **DirtyBacon04** » Sat Jun 15, 2013 6:57 am

ok ok ok...

For those on a budget of money, time, and effort... and knowledge...

by **dvanbramer88** » Sat Jun 15, 2013 8:22 am

DirtyBacon04 wrote:ok ok ok...

For those on a budget of money, time, and effort... and knowledge...

Effort and knowledge is the key :cheers:

And something noobish mall crawlers seem to lack...

MY Youtube Channel · by **TBYODA** » Sat Jun 15, 2013 1:32 pm

dvanbramer88 wrote:
DirtyBacon04 wrote:It's an option to those on a budget.

If you round up to $500, and I can do a 8.5 axle swap and a lock-right locker for the same price. The junkyards in my area get $150 for a complete axle assembly, wheel mounting surface to wheel mounting surface. They might charge a little extra if you take the brakes/control arms. And even on here I've seen people get the 8.5 axle for ~$100 bucks.

Lets call the LSD a mall crawler mod for wet traction.

I would jump at a $100 but are you talking pre 05? My TB is a 08 so as I understand it I need a 06 or newer. I have effort inside of me or I wouldn't even be post this. Just lack the knowledge or skills. If I can take something apart I can get it back together. The rear diff gears at my current skill level is another story.

Offroad Trailblazers and Envoys