14 bolt clearance issues with Massive control arms

[Regulator1175]

I posted in their vendor thread, but I figured I would post here for discussion on a work around

I am having an installation issue with the panhard bar. I have upgraded to the 9.5" 14 bolt Trailblazer SS rear end. I have the axle pushed back 1.75" from stock and the panhard bar is making contact with the rear diff cover. The rear axle is lower then resting height in this picture, there is not any further up travel.



I am not sure if anyone has experienced this issue yet, but it looks like there needs to be some design modification for a work around.

[ErikSS]

Why did you go so far back? Would moving it 3/4" forward (still 1" back) be enough to cleare the diff pan? I'm VERY interested in this for obvious reasons. haha

[Regulator1175]

The rear wheel well on the Envoy's are tighter than the Trailblazer. This is why I need to push it back.



Question for the engineers, if I use the old sway bar bushing in the stock cup essentially sleaving it, then bolt the new bar on the outside with a bolt going all the way through both and picking up the nut in the original location, will that be strong enough?

Here is the way it currently sits.

[TangoBravo]

Are you talkin about sleaving the entire inside, where it is currently located and mounting it outside that bracket? I'm no engineer but I have some years of mechanicin under my belt and based on how that bracket is designed I personally would not do that on my own rig. What I would do if possible is move the rear end up maybe .25 and get with massive and put in some off set bushings to basically set that bar as far to the rear of the bracket as possible while still staying inside of the bracket. I think that would be the best bet to keep any possible bracket failure low, as it was designed to have any pushing or pulling force from inside not outside. The extra leverage force from outside might be enough to cause a failure IMO. But I would also get an opinion from an engineer or two, they have magical ways to determine if that bracket will hold or not.

[Regulator1175]

Yes, that is what I was proposing.

I am not even to ride height yet and it is hitting. I don't think a half inch at best of adjustment is going to be any benefit. It looks like that bar is going to have to move 3 inches or so back, essentially to the outside of the current bucket. My only other thought would be to scavenge another bucket from a salvage yard truck and have it welded to the existing one. I am not really sure if that would be any better though.

[TangoBravo]

Ok right I over looked that you weren't at ride hight yet. So your best guess is 3" man that's a stretch, looks like you have what about 1/2" spacer on each side right now and what is the total of the fitting 1"-1 1/4" so that would put you around 1.5"-1.75" outside the bracket to get the 3". That's a stretch I would guess your going to need some sort of bracing for sure. Are you going to need that on both sides?

[TangoBravo]

No that's not right I have that backwards. What are the spacers 1". And the fitting total 1/2"-3/4"?

[Regulator1175]

The spacers are about an inch. If it was moved to the outside of the cup it would effectively change by a little more then 2 inches.

I guess the easiest solution would be for them to modify the design to a bent or curved bar.

[TangoBravo]

From our stand point from what I can see that would be the best for you. This may however not be the easiest for them. It would be interesting to see what they come up with. Keep us posted.

[v7guy]

It doesn't even look like offset spacers would clear that. I wouldn't mount the panhard rod in single shear either. Everytime I see talk of bending links for clearance I see the engineer people freak out and talk about the tube being "pre-buckled" so I tend to shy away from that route as well.

I think the best option is to move the frame side bracket back. The work involved shouldn't be too terrible other than that whole welding on your back/side thing, I hate that shit.

[Trail X]

Oops, I was replying to the other thread... looks like most of what I had discussed has already been covered here.

I agree that I would not offset the panhard to the outside of the mounts, effectively putting it into single shear.

Bending the bar doesn't bother me too much, but the bar rotates for adjustment, which makes it a pain. It would only clear in one orientation. A bent bar still holds strength, its just a matter of making the bar big enough to take away the "buckling" issue. If you bend it, sleeve or otherwise stiffen the bar at the bend and you'd probably be fine.

[dvanbramer88]

To me, Jason's suggestion makes the most sense. Sleeve and box the original frame mount, and than make a new mount in a similar design on the end if the current mount. Use a longer bolt to go through your new mount, than the sleeved original mount. Maintaining a 'double shear' mount and using the strength of the original mount

Does the panhard bar need to be perfectly parallel to the axle?

[Regulator1175]

To me, Jason's suggestion makes the most sense. Sleeve and box the original frame mount, and than make a new mount in a similar design on the end if the current mount. Use a longer bolt to go through your new mount, than the sleeved original mount. Maintaining a 'double shear' mount and using the strength of the original mount

Does the panhard bar need to be perfectly parallel to the axle?

To me, Massive standing behind their product and ensuring that it fits properly makes the most sense. I shouldn't have to modify the truck to make parts fit for their intended and advertised use.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 4

[dvanbramer88]

To me, Jason's suggestion makes the most sense. Sleeve and box the original frame mount, and than make a new mount in a similar design on the end if the current mount. Use a longer bolt to go through your new mount, than the sleeved original mount. Maintaining a 'double shear' mount and using the strength of the original mount

Does the panhard bar need to be perfectly parallel to the axle?

To me, Massive standing behind their product and ensuring that it fits properly makes the most sense. I shouldn't have to modify the truck to make parts fit for their intended and advertised use.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 4

That is true. I agree.

[Trail X]

When you get into more custom stuff like this, I think its a what you see is what you get sorta thing. Blaming them for an unforseen issue like this isn't really fair. 1.75" still seems excessive. Did you make that change based on a measurement? How much fender clearance is built into that number? Can you take your springs out and move the axle into its resting position?

[Regulator1175]

I don't have the springs in yet and the axle is not is still below its normal resting position. As far as the need to push the axle back, take another look at my picture posted above. In standard position I have 1/2 clearance between the tire and lower corner of the door. I was rubbing with any minor bump, let alone trying to wheel it! To the best of my knowledge no one has wheeled an Envoy with 35's yet, that is why I am facing so many issues. Our wheel wells are smaller than the Trailblazers. I had to cut 3"s of front fender to be able to wheel with 33's and still rubbed!

Yes, I do feel that since I am using their products for their intended use they should fit. I can understand that I can't blame the manufacture if my springs don't fit correctly because I am ordering Avalanche/Tahoe springs, but that is not the case here.

[mikekey]

Massive nor any of the other companies state anywhere their product is designed for moving the axle back. Sorry Matt.

We moved our's back 1.25 inches. And we've managed a nice 1inch gap to the wheel well at the door. If he's only got a 1/2inch at 1.75 inches, then HOLY CRAP! That's a tight fit.

And sorry for not offering any solutions to your thread here.

[Regulator1175]

I had 1/2 inch before the adjustment. I would like to have a 2" + gap to avoid rubbing.

[dvanbramer88]

We moved our's back 1.25 inches. And we've managed a nice 1inch gap to the wheel well at the door. If he's only got a 1/2inch at 1.75 inches, then HOLY CRAP! That's a tight fit.

And sorry for not offering any solutions to your thread here.

If you look at his picture, You can see the stock control arms in the background. I'm pretty sure that .5 inches is with stock arms.

BUT, since you guys have been successful with a 1 inch gap. Maybe that is helpful advice for how much clearance is "enough." But since you have the stock rear still, would your diff cover clear if you had a 14 bolt and maintained your 1.25" axle set back. Who knows.

How much room do you need between the Diff cover and the panhard bar? Is it one of those either it clears or it doesn't because the distance between the 2 is pretty constant.

Maybe the problem is an Envoy....

I'm interested in the outcome for my own reasons in the future.

[Regulator1175]

Maybe the problem is an Envoy.... :

I expect your just trying to be a smart ass, but I don't find it amusing. I have said all along that my wheel wells are different than the Trailblazers. OF course by your logic here we should all be driving Jeeps, right?